These are not my words ! So dont shoot the messenger!

But they are the words of quite a few people who I was talking to before the Barrow vs Halifax game last Thursday.

And after the first half performance from the Raiders against Fax I can sort of see their point of view!

With the game televised on Sky there was never going to be a huge crowd down at the game when you could have watched it at home or in the local pubs for Free!

So whats my point......I hear you say!

Is £15 too much to watch the Raiders ?

I think with the current economic down turn the BOD should re-think this years price rise and reduce the entrance fee next year to last years entry price of £13.

And definately drop the price of £5 to watch the reserves! ( There you go harpic)


RP10 ( season ticket holder, sponsor a sodd, and contributer to all other fund raising efforts for BRLFC)

I don't begrudge paying £15 to watch Barrow play, but that was not playing. I don't mind watching Barrow lose week in week out as long as you can say they tried, on Thursday they did not try, by try I mean 80 minutes giving there all for 80 minutes not 40 or 60 or 75. A game is 80 minutes long if they play for 80 minutes am happy.

K6

If you assumed an average 1800 paying customers per home game and the admission fee dropped to £13, you'd then need roughly 2100 people through the gates to achieve the same receipts. Would that happen? A debatable point; People complained when it went up to a tenner; would these people have gone had the game not been on the telly?

It's a good point, though. The club aren't doing much to encourage people to drag themselves away from the TV set; but then again, that's exactly what Rupert's minions want: SKY ratings.

Perhaps the board are guilty of a little complacency, though. The novelty of being on telly isn't there anymore and it should be capitalised on more and sold better.

Maybe there should be some kind of special offer for televised games to attract extra people through the gates. It looks better on telly and sells the live experience to the viewer.

The opportunity should be taken to sell the atmosphere of being at the game to the casual viewer. These are all potential supporters.

Half price for kids or something (they certainly won't be in a pub watching the game - or they shouldn't be, anyway!), or advance tickets for a fiver. If we're losing out on 300-400 paying customers because they'd rather stay in at home to watch, then why not try and make up the shortfall with a special offer or something?

i highlighted this throughout last week it seems to have gone very quiet at the rugby no promoting the big televised games no players in stores throughout the town i can only assume the club has enough supporters coming through the gates.whats happened to players visiting schools and giving away tickets to the kids who inturn drag their parents along to the ground somethings not right and alot of people can sense this.i fully expected the club to kick on this year and i dont mean by winning every game and stuffing every team that comes to craven park i mean by winning the barrow public over and getting people flocking through the gates improving attendances and improving relationships with the amateur clubs as well as bringing the academy structure together and then getting on the road to developing barrows own players.i know miracles dont happen overnight but even slight improvements to the ground would be welcomed and thanked i dont understand why for one elliot miller was not snatched up by barrow even if this meant letting an out of towner leave. before people start to say enjoy the success we have at the moment please please look at the big picture or if you dont want to look at it that way just keep looking with your blinkers on thinking everythings all rosey.

£15 is expensive, especially for couples and families.
Also, there are not enough special offers and the marketing is average.

I know quite a few people who would like to go but as you point out for two it's £30 which is quite a lump if you are towards the end of the month or on a low income. Two home matches in a month and you're at £60 - add two home reserves games and you've hit £70 - that's more than I spend in diesel to get to work and back every week.

I've had to argue for spending money on going to the match or having a chinky and a dvd which works out cheaper and can leave you more satisfied! I usually win by the way

Really can't understand why the marketing is so poor - at the end of the day it's a business and Des of all people should know the monetary value in good marketing - speculate to accumulate.

To answer Rob's original post, I don't think £15 to watch Barrow RFC is to dear in comparison to other clubs, sports and other forms of entertainment in the big wide world. I could find plenty of examples of some which are cheaper but far, far more which are dearer. In general we seem to be paying the 'norm' if there is such a thing.
If you buy a season ticket I think you get 14 matches (10 league, 3 NR Cup and 1 CC) for £165. This works out at less than £12 a match. Kids can buy a junior ticket for £30 which gets them entry to every home and away match in the league, early NR Cup stages and early CC matches. This works out at well under £1:50 a match.
So, no I don't think we are too dear overall.

However, I do agree that £5 to watch the reserves is too expensive and I think season ticket holders should get free admission to these matches. For the amount we get at reserve games it is certainly worth trialling cheaper admission.

Somebody has stated that we are average at promoting matches and here I definitely disagree - we are not even close to being average and can improve in this area enormously - we rely too heavily on the NWEM and Steve's (brilliant) posters. More could be done in this area for sure.

I agree with Fozzy about getting the players into schools more too with incentives to get the kids to go to matches. I am told this happens but when I make enquiries (several members of my immediate family have the misfortune to be teachers - couldn't get proper jobs LOL) it would appear that this certainly isn't a widespread or regular activity. Again, much more could be done in this area.

For our sport & level of competition £15 per game is way to much as is the season ticket price, IMO this has been reflected in the CP attendances this season.

As a couple of examples

A St Helens match ticket bought in advance is £17.50, if you're a young adult (16-18) it's £14.50

You can buy a family season ticket at Wigan Athletic (2 x Adults + 2 x Juniors) for £500 this equates to £6.57 / game per person for the 19 Premier League home games. They probably throw in FA & Carling Cup games as well.

But then again who in their right mind would want to go and watch St Helens OR Wigan Athletic!

Steve Mc is a Wigan Athletic season ticket holder (poor sod)

I hear what you say but a Barrow Raiders family ticket for this season bought before December 31st cost £300 and admits 2 adults and 3 children which works out at £4:29 per person per match for the 14 matches it covered this year (10 league, 3 NR and 1 CC). Even bought after December 31st it cost £330 which is £4:71 per person per match. I honestly don't think this is too dear - do you?

At prices betwen £4.29 and £4.71 it would seem to me that £15 is fairly steep..My arithmetic may not be great but is that not a 300% increase??

As stated in the first post. The price is fine if you are getting what you paid for.

I couldn't imagine anyone complaining about the price had we been receiving the level of excitement and committment we got last year. Add to that an unfathomable game schedule and some "social" supporters will start to miss games and even the most loyal (if prone to moaning ) fans such as Rob start to question the value.

I am just pointing out that you can pay a lot less if you get a season ticket. £14 or £15 at the gate is about the norm in our league from my experience. I think tickets are also cheaper if bought in advance from the club shop.

I honestly think the big problem is publicity and getting people interested in coming to watch live sport. Barrow soccer won a Wembley final last season and we won two major trophies (almost three) and yet between the two clubs we couldn't average a cumulative 4,000 fans per match. That says more about the sporting people of Barrow than either club in my opinion.

It is a sad fact that many, many Barrovians travel outside the area these days to watch live sport and in doing so incur a lot more cost with travel and tickets than the £15 or so the Raiders and AFC charge. This suggests to me that money isn't the issue. A lot of people would rather attach themselves to Man Utd, Liverpool, Saints, Wigan etc (and ultimately pay a lot more for the privilege once you take into account travel costs, food, etc). It is this trend which needs reversing but I have no idea how this can be done.

To add my two penneth.
It's difficult to commit to a season ticket when you don't know when matches will be played.
They may clash with work commitments or other personal commitments over the summer especiall people involved in sport on a saturday.
I think they should give more free tickets to schools.
I remember getting them for tuesdays floodlit cup matches in the seventies which probably sparked my original interest.
Pester power from kids would get more parents though the turnstiles (admit kids only with adult. Target one or two schools a week and see how it goes.

Very good value.....for the level of competition that the Raiders are at. The point I was trying to make by using Saints & Wigan as examples was that for the level of competition that they play at (Super League & Premier League) it represents much better value for money than the Raiders £15 entrance fee.

We used to go into schools regularly and hand out free tickets to pupils at differing intervals, I just assumed that the full-timers employed by the club would still be doing this!!!!! I think the main issue in regards to marketing is 'Who'??? Who is the person designated to look after the marketing side and co-ordinate with players to achieve marketing aims and objectives????? Is there anyone?????

It took a while but eventually we got there.....

Who is the marketing and promotions manager for the Raiders?

I have worked inside James Fishers for nearly 11 years and aside from people coming to try to get sponsorship in some form, nobody has ever come to the office with a promotion or a special offer.

For the last few years our company ( The Marine Travel Company ) has done some serious money spending at the Raiders and nobody from the club even took the trouble to invite my MD to the Northern Rail Cup Final or the Grand Final. ( which p*ssed him off quite a lot, truth be told )

We hear that the club is doing this, and doing that but is there somebody employed by the club to go out and about throughout the South Lakes area promoting the club and visiting businesses with some form of incentive for them to be able to come down and enjoy the spectacle of a Raiders Home game.

If there is no-one doing this job then I will throw my hat in the ring as, from 01st of October the Marine Travel Company will no longer have a presence in Barrow which has resulted in my colleague and I being made redundant and therefore, if the right package is available, I will take the Raiders to the masses....

Awaiting your response

You do wonder sometimes whether any of this sort of feedback actually gets back to the powers that be and whether they ever act on suggestions raised here.

The trouble with forums like this is that you can start to believe that you have some influence over how the club is being run, when in reality it's just the same fifty or so individuals out of a fanbase of 1800 expressing an opinion: venting spleen into the ether.

I wonder if that's how the points raised on here are dealt with? With a pinch of salt, I imagine.

We used to get the occasional visit from the likes of Jonty and Jon Livesey giving the club's take on things.

Is anyone going to respond to any of the issues raised, I wonder? Or will the siege mentality take hold again?

I like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as I am aware Darren, Jonty is in charge of promoting the club through the schools. I am not aware of any mareting of adults.

Is the forum the right way to go about this? Why don't you try the BOD?

K6

Back to the original post...

Most of the £15 we pay goes towards the wages of the players... money well spent when you look at the players we have and when they play good and win matches the £15 is worth it..

However, if the price is reduces by a couple of pounds would the team have to loss one/more of the higher paid players?? By reducing the price by a couple of quid would this intice more supporters?? enough to make up the difference plus more?? my immediate thought...NO.

As mentioned the way forward is marketing.... do we have a marketing person who is paid for the job?

this is what gripes me the most how does the club expect different people to venture down to craven park on match days when there has been hardly any promotions or advertisements this season.last year this was happening quite frequently and in my eyes it was working which is one of the reasons why the crowds have increased as well as the lure of a winning team bringing trophies to the town.i have noticed that john livesey doesnt bother posting on here any more for what reason i dont know.his posts kept people up to date on things going on at the club and basically kept the supporters who come on here pacified.i honestly thought there might of been a response as to what was happening with the 50k the club received off the council i know people believe that this will be swallowed up into the clubs wage bill and running costs i really hope this does not happen and is used positively towards any upgrades at the ground even towards the development fund keith is helping to run come on bods can the supporters have some news at to what is happening with the issues that people are enquiring about.

The £50k injection is to be for ground improvement.

[quote name='Keith Nutter' date='Jul 27 2010, 12:40 PM' post='2084344']
I am just pointing out that you can pay a lot less if you get a season ticket. £14 or £15 at the gate is about the norm in our league from my experience. I think tickets are also cheaper if bought in advance from the club shop.

I honestly think the big problem is publicity and getting people interested in coming to watch live sport. Barrow soccer won a Wembley final last season and we won two major trophies (almost three) and yet between the two clubs we couldn't average a cumulative 4,000 fans per match. That says more about the sporting people of Barrow than either club in my opinion.

It is a sad fact that many, many Barrovians travel outside the area these days to watch live sport and in doing so incur a lot more cost with travel and tickets than the £15 or so the Raiders and AFC charge. This suggests to me that money isn't the issue. A lot of people would rather attach themselves to Man Utd, Liverpool, Saints, Wigan etc (and ultimately pay a lot more for the privilege once you take into account travel costs, food, etc). It is this trend which needs reversing but I have no idea how this can be done.
[/quote
Keith, herein lies the problem, With all of Des,s investment bringing in proven players with superleague experience and contesting at the top for last season and this,one not forgetting our promotion two seasons ago we are still struggling to achieve a regular 2,000 attendance, even if we achieve S/L status we would need to double our current attendance figures and to be brutally honest I cannot see that happening. As you have previously stated we have contested Two major finals and have provided the public of Barrow with a winning Product on the field yet still we struggle to bring new Fans to our Great Club. I Really Don,t Know what else can be done to bring in more supporters.

Not everyone can stump up the cost of a season ticket all in one go and more often than not will attend just a few matches or stay away altogether. It is a major marketing issue to encourage people to attend - maybe if the club looked after their sponsors a bit more then we would have more sponsors interested. It might be just me but I get the feeling it's a one man run club.

Fozzy - the money is for ground enhancements and this has been stated on here several times and also in the NWEM.

After last years grand final success the club should have offered any fan at the GF with a ticket stump the opportunity to buy a season ticket with a 33% discount.....with what.....nearly 5,000 fans there, I bet if that was put on the back page of the NWEM at the time a few people would have invested!

Club missed a trick imo, to ensure like people have said, things kick on a bit from last season, in every respect, performance, attendance etc etc! Club should have promotions every week to get as many people thru the door as possible!

I am sick of saying the club needs to employ a professional marketing manager. I was even banging on about it in the bar after thursdays game.

It wouldn't even need to be a full time role, part time to review and define the club marketing strategy for match days, merchandising (particularly the online shop), cup events, junior and family ticket offers and promotions etc. Chasing up the media to increase exposure in a manner the club controls, player and coach interviews on a revamped webste which also provides the facility to join up to the Goldrush online, purchase raffle tickets, matchday tickets and "exec" boxes, book on the supporters coach and anything else the club can sell.

I would also suggest the club look at inviting local amateur teams to train with the first team every few weeks, it may build the relationship with the clubs, give the club the option to talk to and have a look at the best local prospects and get the lads down on match days.

I appreciate that these increased services would require investment and resources, however the club is a business and if it is being run like one it perhaps it should do some customer research and produce a business case assessing the projected revenue increases against the required investment.

have you just worked this out ? its dezzies club ! why do you think we only have 3 board members , we used to have 12 ! at least with 12 you can have a good debate over what ever matters arise !

apologies keith i dont remember seeing the post stipulating the money would be going towards this or that, the only thing i remember reading was that the money off the council was not under any sort of restrictions as to what the club could or could not spend it on.

And if the club is spending £50k on the ground.... What does that actually mean ?

Your right you'd have to be mad!

My little girl is a "Junior Stripe" Wigan its £5 a season for kids aged 0 to 5 and she gets her own seat, whilst she has no interest (she is two and far to sensible!) it does mean that when I go and the wife kicks off I can take her with me so they get an adult admission they'd otherwise probably not have got.

Problem with crowds is they build slowly and it takes years, success helps but you really have to flog the marketing look at the effort Wigan put into the "Big 1 2" amongst others this year.

I've enjoyed my trips to Craven Park this season, the club is probably hard pushed at 15 quid to make ends meet so whilst they have lots of spare capacity in the ground I'd suggest going for marketing pushes that gets those who are already attending to fetch someone else (mates, partners, kids etc etc) with them.

Ignoring the fact that there are actually four people on the BoD (a check with companies house confirms this) it is impossible for Des to control the number of Board members.

I am unsure exactly what the maximum is but let's say it is twelve (and you are probably close with that figure). All somebody needs to do if they want to join the current Board is be either a season ticket holder or a debenture holder and be proposed and seconded by two people (again they must be either a debenture holder or season ticket holder). This must be done in writing about two weeks before the AGM.
If you are proposed/seconded at the AGM and the BoD are understrength (ie eight short of the maximum) then you are elected unopposed. There is no vote taken whatsoever - you just join the BoD.

If the BoD had a full compliment then at each AGM some (three I think) must stand down and if there is new blood wanting to join a vote is taken to decide who stays/leaves/joins the BoD. I cannot remember the last time this happened but in the years up to the 1980s it was a regular occurence.

Des cannot change this situation whether he wants to or not as these rules are written into the articles of association.

I am not at all certain but I believe anyone wishing to join the board now could do so by calling an EGM and gaining election that way but if anyone is keen they would need to check this out. The BoD can certainly co-opt people onto the BoD outside of an AGM but only if they are short on numbers.

I am pretty certain that Des and the BoD would welcome some new blood willing to help with all the problem areas which are regular discussed on this and other forums - the reserves, promoting matches, etc, etc. These are very real problem areas but four board members cannot do it all (as I think most sensible fans realise) - that isn't to say that they don't know the problems exist.

Biting the hand that feeds not inviting the guy to the final , please apply for the job BBR Thats what it needs a person with a real passion for the cause

Totally agree with the posts regarding marketing and looking after sponsors, the company I work for sponsored the rugby for about 3k a season and after the initial agreement never had any contact from the club and didn't receive all that was promised for example no sponsored player until halfway through the season and no signed picture but it was the lack of contact and appreciation from the club that was the boss's main gripe. Think it's really unfortunate that more isn't being done with sponsors, marketing, local media etc, seems like some big opportunities are being missed.

[quote name='Barrow Bar Raider' post='2084446' date='Jul 27 2010, 02:10 PM']It took a while but eventually we got there.....

Who is the marketing and promotions manager for the Raiders?



I believe Peter Millican was promotions manager up until last year. As far as I was aware he did a good job gaining sponsors and selling the boxes.

LOL. Sorry Keith but I can't hold it in any longer.....................he controls the board members numbers simply by being there.( just a bit of banter).

Getting back to the original topic, and just for information next Thursdays Sky match Hunslet v Workington admission is £5 adults, juniors free.
I know we are a Division below you but as stated this is just for your information.

That's really not on is it terrible PR and plain bad business.

I see Leigh are letting ST holders by a ticket for a fiver for a friend to boost their gate against Toulouse.

Sounds like ag ood idea to me.

And theres me thinking I was doing a decent job. If RonnieD wants to PM me I will be happy to right any wrong that your boss may have suffered in the past.

Sorry holty snr was not this season I was referring to was last 3 years, changes have been made in the company this year which meant we were not able to do the same contra deal we had been doing, but as a big supporter of the rugby my boss felt quite put out just hope other businesses don't feel the same and by highlighting this hopefully you can prevent it..sure your doing a great job and sure it's appreciated cos I believe it's important we have someone out there building relationships with the people that can help the club grow( local businesses and their sponsorship)

would i be wrong if i said dez was the 4th ? so inc dez we have 4, johnson.durkin.nixon.livesey is this correct then ?

Apologies it has taken me a while to reply to this....The website shop is currently being changed to a "club shop" rather than an ebay shop. this will also mean we are going to be selling match day and season tickets as well as merchandise online. Another (hopefully soon) addition will be the long awaited Raiders TV, I have recently appointed Mike Doran as project manager for this particular venture and we are hoping to trial it for the remainder of this season with the intention of "going live" next season. I am hoping to have 3 channels, Channel 1 will be the highlights programme (unfortunately limited to 15 mins per game) Channel 2 for interviews and such with channel 3 being the community and junior channel, players showing how to pass catch etc so the kiddies can emulate their favourite players.
Obviously these are just my initial ideas and if anyone else wants to chip in please feel free, also, the people that volunteered when i originally asked, you haven't been forgotten and thanks for your patience.

Mark Leech
Barrow Raiders Electronic Media and Communications Manager

Sounds great stuff Mark. Keep up the good work

Great stuff, Raiders TV Ooer

Shop on line, excellent.

i don't believe £15.00 is too much, but i do recall in the 80's you could get in free at half time, is this still the case, and if so would it count towards the offical attendance..

£15 as a single payment is not too bad. The problem is I take the family so if we were not season ticket holders it would cost me £60 as both boys are over 16. With food and drinks it would cost a me over £80. I dare not mention the away games with the added cost of the bus.
I am lucky that I can afford this but alot of families can not and rather than leave anyone out nobody goes.
Before you say, I know you can buy family tickets which is good if you decide early in the week that you are going and have time to get to the rugby shop.
We do need some incentive to get people through the gates but this should be more club promotion and not just special offers.