We, the undersigned, are writing to petition the Rugby Football League to return the game to its heartlands and to run it with the interests of the game’s clubs, players and supporters close at heart. This could be done in two steps.

1) To cease as soon as is possible, the current Super League operating policy of franchise systems and to return to a proper system of promotion and relegation. NO OTHER SPORT IN THE WORLD with a two or three tier league system operates with a closed shop. Super League is currently operating to benefit a select band of money men and regardless of the fact that Super League attendances are at record levels; rugby league in its proud heartlands is a dying sport. The attendances in the National Leagues are a sad indicator of this fact, when in reality the standard of rugby served up at this level deserves a wider audience. There is only one way to bring more people back to the game at this level and that is to give the clubs something tangible to play for – what kind of prize is an empty promise to be CONSIDERED for a seat on the gravy train?

2) To cease with immediate effect, Super League and Sky television’s dominance of what is deemed important for rugby league, with particular regard to the Rugby Football League’s expansionist agenda. Rugby League’s true supporters are entirely aware that the British game is only played along the M62, in Cumbria and, to a lesser extent, in small pockets of London. The fact of the matter is that most supporters are entirely happy with this. We know what we’ve got and we love it, thank you very much. As the old adage goes ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. Unfortunately it is broke, but only as a result of the RFL’s constant tinkering and incessant attitude of trying to sell the game to an unwilling audience.

We the undersigned, petition that these changes are put into effect. In return, we believe that rugby league will prosper in its heartlands with the longer term benefits that this will bring: increased attendances at all levels, increased participation at grass roots level, increased competition and a level playing field for ALL professional clubs. If new teams want ‘a shot’ at Super League, make them EARN and MAINTAIN the right to play there.

You can tell that "School's out for summer"..............ha ha!

I think you're pishing in the wind there Rodney.....But good luck with your quest!



RP10

I'm sure I saw some rugby league on the bbc recently?

How on earth could it be good for the game for Catalans to go down this year?

What a silly petition

If Catalans finish bottom they SHOULD go down. What is it that they bring to the game? They dont financially boost the coffers when they visit other grounds that the likes of Fev Barrow and Halifax would.

there are arguments for and against this, personally being a raiders fan i would back this but you have to take into consideration how far the crusaiders have come this season having won 8 games compared to one or two last year, if relegation was still on then they would have been relegated and probably ended up floating mid table in the championship and slowly losing fans and interest. If the RFL are going to spread league into wales the only way is by keeping a welsh team in the top league. I'm not saying i agree with franchising but its just how it is.

good luck with it

I don't agree with that. As far as I am concerned RFL were determined to get a SL team into South Wales and Celtic Crusaders got in by default. I reluctantly could go along with that but what then happens is that Crusaders leave South Wales and move to a stones throw from Widnes and the M62 corridor. In addition Wrexham is only just over the border. The gates are respectable because of travelling SL support. To make matters worse South Wales Scorpions are admitted to Championship1 and they have gates of about 600.

Despite winning 8 games this season they have lost, and continue to lose fans this season. Their core support is now around 2,500 - only boosted when a big team comes to town.

Proof once more that the only successful expansion club is Catalans.
Paris - failed.
Gateshead - failed.
Fulham/Broncos/Quins - failed.
Celtic - failed.

But are they really successful?

I personally dont think so, they also would of been out of Super League also had they not been exempt from relegation.

K6

Mansfield marksmen, Scarborough pirates and wasn't there Nottingham outlaws to add to your list?

I can't figure out what context this is written in Michael.

If SWS get average gates of about 600 then I think that is good in comparison to other C1 sides / attendances isn't it?

Because it would be as a result of fair promotion and relegation you dimwit. It's an absolute con that a team can be guaranteed entry to the top competition for an extended time period without maintaining that right by winning matches, especially with the added incentives Catalans have been given. I've no problem with having a French team in Super League, it's all the rule bending it takes to get them there and at the expense of clubs like Barrow who in any other sport would have earned their right to play in the top league this year by winning the Grand Final last season. Sky and the RFL though are intent on spreading the game far and wide to meagre handfuls of supporters just to make more cash for their already over full pockets.

I've got no problem with Sky, I've got no problem with expansion, I've got no problem with minimum standards for promotion and I've got no problem with the higher league clubs getting a larger amount of the Sky cash, though the distribution should be fairer.

However, I do have a problem with a closed shop franchise. I believe new clubs should start at the bottom of a professional pyramid and earn promotion on the field. I also believe all leagues and all teams, be they in development areas or otherwise, should operate under the same rules as regards the numbers of overseas players.

If the entry criteria to SL was a 10,000 ground with 3,000 seats, a club that was solvent, a club with youth structures and a min average attendance of 3000 it would be there in black and white, If we win the league and don't meet the criteria then fine we know exactly what we have to do to achieve promotion. What is frustrating is that the decisions are made behind closed doors.

The RFL should visit Championship clubs with promotion ambition early in the season and tell them in black and white the improvements required for promotion. Then a revisit in August for a test of suitability and if there was a close failure another couple of weeks to put things right. Come play-off time everybody would know which teams were eligible.

Sensible solution - bit like Ofsted for Rugby. Couple this with performance related criteria which means relegation should equally be involved if not up to scratch and you have a clear criteria for clubs to work to. Chances of it happening though....?

No al rugby Moderno

OK, How many people have signed this petition then? Hang on, there`s a queue right round Craven Park

Fair comment SFR. Their gates are 3rd in the 11 team Division but the gates of all teams in Championship1 are deplorable. How to improve them is another argument.

You're not wrong there Michael. Oldham have the highest average crowds with 800 !!!!!
Blackpool the lowest with 309.

We averaged 1,400+ when we were promoted from NL2 in 2008 and 1,300+ the year before.

That's the problem with the criteria; they aren't necessarily there as tests that have to be passed for eligibility to apply for a licence. The only one that specifically entitles you to apply, we all know about, and Batley have just joined that select little group. The rest of the criteria are effectively a list of reasons of why you can get refused a licence so they can put whoever they want in instead. Apart from the Grand Final/NR Cup requirement that gets you an entry into the raffle, any of the remainder can be ignored as the RFL sees fit.

The Championship clubs are left trying to embarrass Red Hall and SKY by not playing to their script. In SKY/RFL World, the Championship is all about Widnes ("The Cup Kings", Paul Cullen), Leigh ("NR Cup poster boy, Robbie Paul...Ian Millward...can we have your babies?") and Halifax ("The Entertainers").

I suspect the whole licensing lark was intended to cater for a three way contest between those three clubs plus an expansionist fast-track for Toulouse.

Barrow and Batley have bloodied SKY/RFL's noses good and proper by not sticking to their perceived also-ran roles. Featherstone Rovers also look likely to add to the RFL's woes. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

But yes...oh for the return of promotion and relegation. A chance to mix it with "the elite" for once. If the RFL are genuinely worried about newly-promoted clubs ability to survive in SL, then what's wrong with a 3 year licence system, but based on promotion and relegation? That would certainly put the fear of God into some of the complacent clubs up there.

If you haven't consolidated your position in SL after three years and made yourself strong enough to finish 4th from bottom above the three most recently promoted teams with three-year immunity, you deserve to get relegated. It would keep things fresh, the relegated club could "bounce back" the following season and IMPROVE ATTENDANCES at all levels by freshening up the leagues.

The RFL claimed to have brought in the licence system because newly-promoted teams were bankrupting themselves trying to stay in SL and avoid getting immediately relegated the following season. The current system is really only there to protect three or four weaker clubs from going to the wall. Unfortunately, in doing so, the RFL have actually condemned most of the clubs outside SL to a slow, lingering death.

As things stand now, the big problem with any collective howl of protest from the lower leagues is that it is likely to fall on deaf ears because the numbers no longer add up. Going back to the mid-eighties, the top 6 or 7 teams in the upper half of the old second division could muster weekly average crowds of 1500-2000. Now there are only three or four teams who can achieve these figures on a regular basis. Everyone else struggles to top 800.

It's a sad fact that if every Championship and Championship One club went to the wall tomorrow, the total number of rugby league supporters lost to the game would only be around 10,000 people: The total aggregate attendance at any given week's round of fixtures is often not much more than the average weekly crowd of some Super League clubs. Most weeks, the total number of people watching Co-operative Championship and Championship One rugby would struggle to fill one of those minimum ground capacity concrete sheds that the RFL insist we must all occupy these days, despite the fact that the chances of getting one built is next to impossible these days, unless you sell the family silver and your soul to whoever your council happens to be. It really is a nonsense.

Personally, I think the damage has already been done. If half the clubs below SL went out of business, it is an unfortunate fact that most of the people in the towns concerned wouldn't give a stuff, so why should the RFL?

A pared-down lower league structure would fit in perfectly with a hidden agenda of having a small number of junior clubs as feeder teams to the elite: a scenario that many Championship clubs are already becoming complicit with, as we hear more and more about "historic tie-ups", dual registrations and the like.

And after all that, we're no nearer being able to beat the Aussies, so that argument doesn't hold either.

The "Rugby League" family is as disfunctional as the Gallaghers off Shameless.

Other than that, everything's rosy in the garden. Now where's that petition...

Dont give Widnes a licence that should boost the Saders attendances

Cracking idea.

You know it would be nice if, in all sports not just RFL, the fans were asked what they would like to see happen and not leave decisions to those who are so far removed from the average fan and only interested in pound signs...after all we're the ones paying for it all in the long run. All we can do is pay out to watch our beloved sport and grumble about what we think needs fixing with no-one listening.

My suggestion for promotion and relegation to the RFL, for which I didn't get a reply, and on the SKY Sports website, which didn't get published, was simply this.

The bottom SL team plays off for the right to remain in SL against the top Championship team, be it the league leaders or the Grand Final winners. The nitty gritty around the venue and who would represent the Championship would need to be sorted however it would keep alive the dream for the Championship clubs and allow the best teams to be in SL not just the select few.

You won't get any petition through with that sort of language Rod. If you want a return to P & R in the context of providing a meaningful competition involving a lot more clubs whilst abandoning expansion clubs being protected from relegation at the expense of other clubs ambition you surely need a more polite and respectful petition, that is based on an all inclusive attitude to heartlands and non heartlands.

SKY provide the game with shedloads of money working out at the "greedy" SL clubs pocketing the lot at about £900.000 plus per season. If we gave two leagues of 12 clubs £500,000 each a season and operated a P & R system then expansion clubs could be protected and everyone could have a share of the pot, because at that figure there'd be thousands left to help the clubs who can't make the 24 cut.

We'd still need a salary cap.

It's said all SKY want from RL is to fill their schedules with a decent sport. Wether it's SL or NL rugby League it's pretty darn decent fare so there's a chance they may accept this, but not if you want to go shouting about "SKY dominance"..........

Future sounds promising, after we kick all the expansion clubs to the curb we can die from a self inflicted wound If this attitude prevails, the sport of choice for your grand children will either be football or rugby union.

That is because the Perpignan area of France isn't an expansion area ,there were and are as many juniors playing the game per head of population as many places in the uk which could be classed as heartland .
Unfortunately i can't think of anywhere else in the UK or Europe outside of france where a similiar situation exists and a club could be established .
It just proves that the grassroots have to be in place first and that the theme of this thread is correct in that it is folly to leave the heartlands of the game at junior level to whither on the vine.

1. For 100 years union was amateur and therefore we had the pick of any rugby player that wanted to make a (honest) living out of playing the game

2. For 100 years amateur cross-code players outside the traditional heartlands had huge obstacles put in their way by union clubs that prevented the growth of the gam in these areas

3. The last 10-15 years has seen huge and unprescedented growth of rugby league in areas outside of the traditional heartlands

4. The traditional heartlands towns such as Rochdale and Batley have changed beyond all recognition in the past 50 years, anyone that thinks we can continue to do what we have always done to attract support is deluded beyond all possible help

5. The nation has become increasingly centralized around London & the South East whether we like it or not, no longer do we have national newspapers printed in Manchester and therefore the necessity of establishing a credible club or clubs in this area HAS to be a priority

6. International sport makes the media and the wider public take notice in a way that Saints v Wigan simply doesn't; thus building credible Northern Hemisphere opposition for England is a massive priority - Les Catalans Dragons, Toulouse Olympique, South Wales Scorpions and Crusaders RL are a central plank of this policy by offering a career option to sports people that could be professional RL players and represent their country

7. The biggest drop-off of gates are amongst those clubs WITH something tangible to play for such as those at the base of the Championship (Whitehaven, Keighley) and those fighting for promotion from Championship 1 - is the structure below SL ideal? NO Would the situation be immediately improved by reverting to a situation where Leigh, Widnes, Barrow Fev & Halifax were throwing loans after debts at the promised land of promotion as seen for the 30+ years up until franchising was brought in? NO

8. The meeting where ALL RL club chairmen fell over themselves to offer whatever they could to get the Sky £87 million bail-out came as a direct result of the chase for promotion and to avoid relegation. The running down and eventual sale of; Thrum Hall, Watersheddings, Station Road, Athletics Grounds, Fartown and subsequent instability at those clubs stems from poor management and an inability to plan beyond the end of the season.

9. Harlequins are now seeing unprescedented numbers of southern youngsters, grounded in RL, coming through to the 1st team - is this really the time to threaten them with relegation and oblivion